Re: [thredds] THREDDS Data Server serving from Amazon S3

Look at s3fs (Bob Simons alerted me to this).  It makes a virtual file system 
for S3.  It is also S…L…O…W.

-Roy
> On Jul 14, 2015, at 1:00 PM, Jeff McWhirter <jeff.mcwhirter@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> 
> Glacier could be used for storage of all that data that you need to keep 
> around but rarely if ever access  - e.g., level-0 instrument output, raw 
> model output,  etc. If your usage model supports this type of latency then 
> the cost savings (1/10th) are significant
> 
> This is where hiding the storage semantics behind a file system breaks down. 
> The application can't be agnostic of the underlying storage as they need to 
> support delays in staging data, communicating to the end-user, caching, etc.
> 
> -Jeff
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 1:35 PM, Robert Casey <rob@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
>       Hi Jeff-
> 
>       Of note, Amazon Glacier is meant for infrequently needed data, so a 
> call-up for data from that source will require something on the order of a 5 
> hour wait to retrieve to S3.  I think they are developing a near-line storage 
> solution that is a bit more expensive to compete with Google's new near-line 
> storage, which provides retrieval times on the order of seconds.
> 
>       -Rob
> 
>> On Jul 14, 2015, at 10:10 AM, Jeff McWhirter <jeff.mcwhirter@xxxxxxxxx> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> On this note -
>> What I really want is a file system that can transparently manage  data 
>> between primary (SSD), secondary (S3) and tertiary (Amazon Glacier)  stores. 
>>  Actively used data would migrate into primary storage. Old archived data 
>> moves off into cheaper tertiary storage. I've thought of implementing this 
>> at the application level in RAMADDA but a file system based approach would 
>> be much smarter.
>> 
>> How do the archive folks on this list manage these kinds of storage 
>> environments?
>> 
>> -Jeff
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 10:44 AM, John Caron <caron@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Hi David:
>> 
>> At the bottom of the TDM, we rely on RandomAccessFile. Do you know if S3 
>> supports that abstraction (essentially posix file semantics, eg seek(), 
>> read()) ? My guess is that S3 only allows complete file transfers (?)
>> 
>> Would be worth investigating if anyone has implemented a java 
>> FileSystemProvider for S3.
>> 
>> Will have a closer look when i get time.
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 7:59 PM, David Nahodil <David.Nahodil@xxxxxxxxxxx> 
>> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> 
>> We are looking at moving our THREDDS Data Server to Amazon EC2 instances 
>> with the data hosted on S3. I'm just wondering if anyone has tried using TDS 
>> with data hosted on S3?
>> 
>> 
>> I had a quick back-and-forth with Sean at Unidata (see below) about this.
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> 
>> David
>> 
>> 
>> > > Unfortunately, I do not know of anyone who has done this, although we 
>> > > have had at lease one other person ask. From what I understand, there is 
>> > > a way to mount an S3 storage as a virtual file system, in which case I 
>> > > would *think* that the TDS would work as it normally does (depending on 
>> > > the kind of data you have).
>> 
>> > We have considered mounting the S3 storage as a filesystem and running it 
>> > like that. However, our feeling was that the tools were not really 
>> > production ready and that we're really misrepresenting S3 by pretending it 
>> > is a file system. So this is why we're investigating if anyone has used 
>> > TDS with the S3 API directly.
>> 
>> > > What kind of data do you have? Will your TDS also be in the cloud? Do 
>> > > you plan on serving the data inside of amazon to other EC2 instances, or 
>> > > do you plan on crossing the cloud/commodity web boundary with the data, 
>> > > in which case that could get very expensive quite quickly?
>> 
>> > We have about 2 terabytes of marine and climate data that we are currently 
>> > serving from our existing infrastructure. The plan is to move the 
>> > infrastructure to Amazon Web Services so TDS would be hosted on EC2 
>> > machines and the data on S3. We're hoping this setup should work okay, but 
>> > we might still have a hurdle or two to come. :)
>> 
>> > We have someone here who once wrote a plugin/adapter for TDS to work with 
>> > an obscure filesystem that our data used to be stored on. So we have a 
>> > little experience in what might be involved in what might be involved for 
>> > doing the same with S3. We just wanted to make sure that if anyone had 
>> > done some work already that we made use of that.
>> 
>> > > We very, very recently (as in a day ago) got some Amazon resources to 
>> > > play around on, but we won't have a chance to kick those tires until 
>> > > after our training workshops at the end of the month.
>> 
>> 
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**********************
"The contents of this message do not reflect any position of the U.S. 
Government or NOAA."
**********************
Roy Mendelssohn
Supervisory Operations Research Analyst
NOAA/NMFS
Environmental Research Division
Southwest Fisheries Science Center
***Note new address and phone***
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"the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice" -MLK Jr.



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