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Re: 19990824: advice



Don,

Many thanks for the quick response.  I know these are problems to work
out.  As I type this I now have you next email, filled with instructions
on how to get going.  Can't tell you how much I appreciate it.  Here are
some of my comments:

> What was the problem with McIDAS?  

no menu, error messages when I ran MCMENU UNIDATA.MNU and a run-away
process was generated when I tried GUI, no connection to any data from the
clients, etc
 
> >In order to use UNIDATA software, I (and others) need technical support at
> >a level sufficient to get applications installed and running.  It hasn't
> 
> This is the key.  You were pressed for time trying to get things installed.
> Things would probably be different if you did not have the hardware problems
> and had to rush the installation.  I know you don't want to spend a lot
> of time installing the software, but once you get over the steep learning
> curve, the next installation is a breeze.

Actually, once I'm stuck, no amount of time and work on my own would do. 
The learning curve for me is not just a matter of learning how to install
your software.  It's a matter of knowing all the unix system stuff, where
and how to get other software (like compilers, drivers, etc), what to do
with them, understanding instructions, what the best ways of setting up a
system are, etc.  I haven't found instructions for any phase of this to be
truly useful.  So I think the prerequisites for a person considering an
installation of this software need to be more clearly stated.  Then, I
agree, the installation may be a breeze. 

> >UNIDATA training workshops and instructions on the web can only get you so
> >far.  There's just too much left that a relative novice can't do. 
>
> I understand.  One problem is that you are installing the software almost
> a year after you took the classes.

Actually, I've spent a lot of time with the instructions lately, and would
be glad to sit down with you and show you where I had trouble.
 
> >I'm wondering if support might be available from independent consultants
> >on a fee basis?  I've never heard this discussed before, but with the
> >sunset of OS2 and smaller sites surely having the same difficulty, maybe
> >this is something who's time has come. From the email lists I read, there
> >are obviously a few folks out there who would be qualified, and I think a
> >lot of the job can be done remotely?  Has this been discussed ? 
> 
> We can help you out with installation and configuration of Unidata
> software and we work for free. ;-) I was hoping that by going through
> the steps yourself, you'd be able to do future configurations on your
> own. But, I understand your time constraints. See below.

Yes, but being able to go a complete build and installation is far
different than configuring and routine maintenance.  In fact, I don't
really understand the term 'build'!  

The idea of independent consultants is still something that sounds viable. 
It seems as though there are people out there who could provide
installation support and this would free you up to concentrate
on post-installation problems ? 

> >If the support is not available, I'll have to default to data on various
> >web sites or to commercially available analysis programs.  This is what
> >I'm doing now.  But these options can't compare to programs such as McIDAS
> 
> One of the statements in the Unidata factsheet is that sites that
> want to be Unidata participants "provide their own computers, network
> connections, human resources, and other requirements for participation,
> including access fees for certain data."  That said, we spend a lot
> of support time helping sites that don't have the technical expertise
> get up and running.  Many of the OS/2 sites (yourself included) relied 
> heavily on the UPC for support of that operating system as well.  Already
> you are one up on other sites - you have someone who will support the 
> networking and operating system.  I think the onus will lie on you
> to support the Unidata packages unfortunately.  However, remember once
> the software is installed, there is usually little maintanence required.

Yes, I know you aren't officially responsible for doing everything that
you ultimately end up doing.  And believe me, the support you've given me
from the start has made a big difference for a lot of students. I hope you
know that.  My question is 'has there been a change in attitude toward
smaller schools now that OS2 is gone'?  If so, it's only fair that
the policy be made clear. Maybe it's too soon to tell? 
 
> One of the goals of the Java development should be to have software
> that is easily configured and installed.  That may be easier said
> than done, though because unless all the applications can run as
> applets (and there are problems with this), then users will have
> to have the appropriate Java environments installed on their systems.

This is exactly the kind of concept I don't understand.

> One other note about your setup.  As well intentioned as Kurt is, he
> strayed from the recommended setup for the users of the UPC software.
> Things would be a lot easier if the C Shell was used for the GEMPAK,
> McIDAS and LDM users.  Once you stray from our recommendations, support
> and maintenance becomes a real problem.  

And there is no way for me to know this.  When I get to these decisions in
the instructions, I can't make them.  The instructions aren't worded in
such a way as to lead one to the best choice.  So, I deferred to Kurt. 

I'm not sure what to do now?  Ideally, I'd like a system that is setup
in the most trouble-free way, and if I have to do the entire thing over
from the start to achieve this, I will.

> >I know these are difficult questions and I suspect I'm not the first to
> >bring them up.  But if you have any suggestions or advice on what to do,
> >I'd appreciate it.
> 
> We can get you up and running if you want our help and detail what we
> did.  While that is no substitute for you learning to do it yourself,
> it will go a long way toward getting useful applications into your
> classrooms.

Yes, I can't continue without your help.  But perhaps there is some
compromise in amount?  And now that I see you latest email, maybe this is
a moot point.  I'm willing to learn, I just can't learn everything you
know (nor am I interested in learning what you know) in a week.    
 
> I understand your frustration at this point and as I say we will do
> all we can to get you up and running.  Perhaps this should be an
> agenda item for the next UserComm meeting.

Yes, I do believe this is UserComm material, though I doubt anyone else on
the committee is in my situation.  It goes back to how much interest there
is in small schools within UNIDATA.


Many thanks for your comments here.  Now I'm going to read your second
email to see what's next.

Tony

 ****************************************************************************
   Anthony A. Rockwood              Metropolitan State College of Denver    
   Meteorology Program              Dept.of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences 
   303.556.8399                     P.O. Box 173362, Campus Box 22
   address@hidden                Denver, CO  80217-3362                  
   http://www.mscd.edu/~eas         http://clem.mscd.edu/~rockwooa
 ****************************************************************************