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20000425: equipment for CCNY

>From: Edward Hindman <address@hidden>
>Organization: CCNY
>Keywords: 200004251629.e3PGTDG01672 Unidata equipment grants

Ward,

I did get your voicemail yesterday, but I was in a meeting until after
5 pm your time.  Communicating by email is much better since I read
the support mail inbox semi-continuously.

>I am preparing a Unidata Equipment Grant due 8 May 2000.  The purpose of 
>the grant is to replace our obsolete SPARC server and three PC's.  But, I 
>need to describe what I am proposing and get your comments.  This 
>will help us prepare a sound proposal.

OK.  Unless you can get something for your SPARC 20 as a trade in, I
would suggest that you use this machine as a data ingest/decode machine.
Newer machines could then be used for interactive analysis/display.

>You may recall, because of your help in February with our McIDAS-X
>upgrade, we run McIDAS-X, GEMPAK and the LDM on our Unix-based SPARC 20
>and use the Windows-based PC's as clients.  The PC's use the Exceed
>X-windows software to mount the SPARC.  This model worked successfully
>Spring 1999 during a course that employed about 8 PC's simultaneously
>mounted to the SPARC running McIDAS-X.  This spring, with the increased
>complexity of the McIDAS-X, the 8 PC's "gagged" the SPARC.  So, we
>asked your advice about how to "ungag" the SPARC.

The problem with multiple PCs using X windows software connecting to
a central server is that the PCs are only being used for the display
end.  All of the computation is being done on the server machine, and,
for McIDAS, all of the frame information is also being stored in shared
memory on the server.   In order for a setup like this to work
and still do all of the data ingestion and decoding duties, the server
needs to be quite fast, have fast disks, and have a lot of memory.

>In a 22 March e-mail, you said we needed to get a server with excess of
>1 GB of RAM with a fast CPU.

Yes, IF you want to run in the configuration you list above.

>You went on writing that "the model of
>running McIDAS-X from a single machine is automatically doomed to
>failure...can the PCs be upgraded to run Linux so McIDAS-X could run
>directly on them and the SPARC run as a data server?".  Currently the
>PCs have 64 MB RAM expandable to 364 MB and 266 MHZ CPU.  So, we would
>probably have to "soup up" the PC's to run McIDAS-X.

McIDAS-X runs acceptably on 200 Mhz PCs running either Solaris x86
(Solaris for Intel), Linux (RedHat 6.x Linux), or FreeBSD.  I would
recommend that the memory be bumped up to 128 MB, but that is not
absolutely necessary (just desirable).  Given that memory is cheap
right now (I keep seeing 128 MB PC-100 memory for around $100), it
might be a good idea to purchase more RAM.

>I would like to not have to install McIDAS-X on the PC's and obtain a
>suitable server instead for the following reasons.  First and foremost,
>this would mean installing and maintaining up to 11 PC's each with
>their own McIDAS-X/GEMPAK source code.

Both the McIDAS-X and GEMPAK executable code could be shared off of
a server's disk.  This would cut down on the number of installations
of these packages.  You would, however, have to maintain the operating
systems on each machine, but you have to do that anyway.

>I observed the hassle it was to
>just upgrade "Halo" this February with the new McIDAS-XCD release
>(7.606) and you just released a series of "bug fixes".

The main reasons that this was such a hassle were:

o the disk layout on halo was poor
o halo was in need of a LOT of operating system patches
o the installation of the compilers on halo was non-standard
o halo is slow

>We do not have
>the dedicated system administrator that can keep up with this
>workload.

I understand.  NSF expects, however, that a site going after equipment
funds will get its university to provide system administration services.

>Second, if we mounted McIDAS on each PC we would have to
>dual-boot the machines (Linux and Windows, although our Science
>Division computer manager, Dr. Bob Kahn, told me recently they are
>experimenting with Windows NT that may be able to run Linux
>simultaneously).

I guess the question is what is Windows providing you that you would
need the dual boot capability?

>Dual-booting would cause us to loose the simultaneous
>presentation of Internet products, Windows products as well as McIDAS
>products.

Again, what are the Windows products?  There is now a free suite of
applications for Solaris x86, Linux, and FreeBSD that can be used
in place of Power Point, Word, and Excel.  The pacakge, Star Office,
is distributed with Solaris x86 and Linux, and I believe that it is
readily available for FreeBSD.

>Our students use all three products during a session at a
>PC.  In fact, as I write theis e-mail, I have a Word application open
>for the proposal, a Telnet window open for the e-mail, an Internet
>window open watching the weather to see if I'm going to get rained on
>as I bike home this afternoon and a McIDAS global mollweide observing
>the weather in the Khumbu Himal where my associate is heading for
>Everest Base Camp.

You could do all of this in Solaris x86/Linux/FreeBSD:

o run Star Office for Word compatible word processing
o run an xterm with a telnet session
o run Netscape
o run McIDAS-X

I do all of the above at home on my PC that is running RedHat 6.1 Linux.
By the way, I put together this machine for around $500 (excluding monitor).
It has:

o 400 Mhz AMD K6-2 processor
o 128 MB RAM
o 9 GB disk
o 40x CDROM
o floppy, keyboard, PS/2 style mouse
o 17" Sony CDP 200 GS monitor (nice, but I would love to have a 19" monitor)

I always try to point out that for machines that are going to be in use
a lot, a good monitor pays for itself pretty quickly.

I have this machine setup for triple boot: Windows NT (4.0 service pack
6); Solaris x86 (2.7), and RedHat 6.1 Linux.  I plan on removing
Solaris x86 and replacing it with FreeBSD fairly soon now.  I run
triple boot so I can do development at home in a variety of
environments.

>In summary, I propose to request the largest possible server to replace
>our SPARC and use the server to run McIDAS/GEMPAK for the client PC's.

I fear that, depending on exactly what you ask for, and how much CCNY
is willing to cost match,  your proposal will not get funded.  I have
noticed that sites requesting high powered server machines rarely get
funded for them.  Those sites that did get funded were doing local
modeling, supporting large scale research, and providing computing for
a large number of students.

>I further would keep the LDM on the SPARC injesting the IDD data
>stream.

Keeping your SPARC 20 in use is a good idea.

>Thus, the new server would only be running either McIDAS-X or
>GEMPAK.
>
>I look forward to your comments and suggestions.  As always, mighty 
>McIDAS guru, your opinions are extremely valuable.

You could think about getting two or three higher end PCs that could be
used as servers for the PCs running Windows and eXceed.  The cost
of amply configured PCs is such that you can get twice as many machines
for the same price as "standard" Unix boxes.

January 26, 2000

Base System:  Dual Intel Pentium III 700 Mhz Coppermine CPU w/256 KB Cache
                ASUS P2BDS Dual CPU SCSI ATX BX AGP Motherboard
                Single Edge Connector Pentium II Slots
              One AGP, Four PCI and Two ISA expansion slots
              (2) 16550 serial ports and (1) hight-speed parallel port
              AGP Video Support and Two Stacked USB Connectors
              Integrated PCI Ultra DMA Hard/Floppy Drive Controller
              Teac 1.44 MB Floppy Drive
              Qty 2 - High-end ball-bearing CPU Fan
              Enlight 8902 Full Tower Case with 300 Watt UL LIsted Power Supply

Memory:       756 MB SDRAM (Ztech to Provide ECC Registered Memory)

Hard Drive:   Qty 1 - 18.2 GB IBM 10,000 rpm U2W SCSI hard drive w/2 MB Cache
              Qty 1 - Enhance Technology ER4610 Removable Hard Drive Rack
                w/lock and fan

Controller:   On-board Adaptec Ultra 2 Wide Chipset
              On-board Bus Mastering Ultra DMA IdE controller supporting 4
                devices

Monitor:      21" KDS VS-21E SVGA monitor

Video Card:   8 MB ATI Xpert 98 ABP 2x video accelerator

Multimedia:   Creative Labs 52X IDE CD-ROM

Network:      3Com 905B-TX PCI network adapter with driver software

Software:     N/A (customer supplied)

I/O:          Keytronics PS2 Windows 95 keyboard
              Logitech 3-button PS2 mouse

Warranty      Technical Reference and Manuals
and Support:  Lifetime Toll-Free technical support
              24 hours of testing
              3 year Parts and Depot Labor Warranty

Price:        $5,295
 
Contact:      Lyndon V. Hanson
              Vice President - Contour Systems Group
              contoursys.com

On a machine much slower than these, we are ingesting all four NOAAPORT
channels, all of the IDD data, CONDUIT data, NIDS data, and we are
running the full suite of our decoders.  In addition, we are running
the McIDAS ADDE remote server and letting more and more people access
GINI imagery from it.  The machine is really not even breathing hard!

So, if you are determined to go the server route, I strongly suggest that
you consider exactly what kind of box you propose as your server.  Having
two would give you redundance and more compute power for probably less
money than an amply configured Sun.

>Sincerely,
>Prof. Ward Hindman
>CCNY

Tom