It would be interesting to know the status of the HDF file format
specification. Will it remain open source and free to use and implement?
Will there be two file formats, one for the CE core features, and another
that will include features that support the ESE that are proprietary?
John
On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 5:33 PM, Ted Habermann <thabermann@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> Sean, Roy, Gerry et al.,
>
> You are all right that figuring out the impact of this change in
> communities like netCDF that have a lot of moving parts may end up being a
> challenge. It is a topic of discussion at THG and we will be discussing it
> with Unidata next week (after Mohan returns).
>
> I think that sticking with the Community Edition will work in most, if not
> all, cases. Are there situations in the past that members of this group
> know about that involved patches that were "urgent" to the netCDF4
> community? If so, let’s get them on the table so we can hash out how they
> would work in the new structure.
>
> The real situation that we are trying to deal with is that the
> project-based model can only go so far in sustaining free software (see
> https://www.fordfoundation.org/library/reports-and-
> studies/roads-and-bridges-the-unseen-labor-behind-our-
> digital-infrastructure). The HDF Group has survived over many years with
> a very small set (way less than 1%) of users actually providing support for
> tools that they use every day in research and commercial applications. We
> have been working to find alternatives for the last several years and this
> one seems the best.
>
> We appreciate all input from the community on these changes and are
> collecting, considering, and responding on the HDF Forum (
> https://forum.hdfgroup.org/t/announcing-development-of-the-
> enterprise-support-edition-of-hdf5/4374). Please join the discussion
> there to help us understand and minimize the impact of these changes on
> long-term partners.
>
> Thanks,
> Ted
>
> ==== Ted Habermann ========================
> Director of Earth Science, The HDF Group
> Voice: (217) 531-4202
> Email: thabermann@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> ==== HDF: Software That Powers Science ====
>
> On 5/9/18, 4:48 PM, "thredds-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Roy
> Mendelssohn - NOAA Federal" <thredds-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf
> of roy.mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> From talking from time to time with people at HDF Group, one of the
> problems is everyone wants to use it, no one wants to pay for it, my
> Agency no exception (in fact we are probably one of the worse in this
> regard). They will gladly buy software from Microsoft or ESRI, but not
> just make payments to support things like the HDF Group or for that matter
> Unidata.
>
> Maybe we can have versions with and without advertising!! (just
> kidding).
>
> Seriously, I can understand where HDF Group is coming from, they are
> trying to develop a model that allows for financial stability. But it
> makes for some tough choices for others.
>
> I have always wondered just how long-term and secure the funding is
> for netCDF (and no Sean you don't need to answer). And on twitter and on
> the HDF Forum some people have mentioned moving to some other formats,
> which if I intuit things correctly are equally insecurely funded.
>
> As I said, I don't have a lot of good answers. But maybe people can
> start thinking about ways to insure that formats that are important to our
> scientific communities are properly funded.
>
> -Roy
>
>
> > On May 9, 2018, at 3:20 PM, Gerry Creager - NOAA Affiliate <
> gerry.creager@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > Certainly the reduced frequency of releases, and the fairly obvious
> attempt to slow bug fixes/updates represents a strategy. I'm concerned that
> the attempt to make sure they maintain a stable financial footing is likely
> to cause them problems down the road. I agree with Roy, too. The mix they
> propose is only going to hurt the community overall.
> >
> > gerry
> >
> > On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 3:51 PM, Sean Arms <sarms@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Great points, Roy. We are discussing exactly these kinds of things
> > now. Any feedback from the community from the point of view of
> > netCDF-4 will certainly be welcome.
> >
> > I will say that because we role our own HDF reader, we likely won't
> be
> > able to support any enterprise only features of HDF5 in the
> > netCDF-Java stack unless we do a cleanroom implementation (ugh)...at
> > least that's from how I interpret the "[c]lients agree to not share
> > proprietary items, e.g. binaries, add-ons, documentation, etc."
> > statement from their FAQ. More to come, I'm certain.
> >
> > Sean
> >
> >
> > On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 2:36 PM, Roy Mendelssohn - NOAA Federal
> > <roy.mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > Hi Sean:
> > >
> > > Thanks. This may cause a real conundrum. If you go with the
> Enterprise version. people may not be able to build on their own if the
> only have the Community Edition, as they might be differences that matter .
> If you go with the Community edition, you will be late getting possibly
> important patches.
> > >
> > > Can't say I have a good solution. was the first thing I thought
> of when I saw the announcement.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > -Roy
> > >
> > >
> > >> On May 9, 2018, at 1:05 PM, Sean Arms <
> support-general@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> RE: The HDF Group's announcement of an Enterprise Support Edition
> > >>
> > >> Unidata is evaluating ways to ensure ongoing support for
> HDF5-format data
> > >> in netCDF, which will continue to be available to the community
> at no cost. We
> > >> hope to be able to outline a way forward for netCDF shortly.
> > >>
> > >> For those who may have missed the announcement by the HDF Group
> yesterday,
> > >> more details can be found here:
> > >>
> > >> https://www.hdfgroup.org/2018/05/announcing-development-of-
> the-enterprise-support-edition-of-hdf5/
> > >>
> > >> Cheers,
> > >>
> > >> Unidata Support
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
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> > >
> > > **********************
> > > "The contents of this message do not reflect any position of the
> U.S. Government or NOAA."
> > > **********************
> > > Roy Mendelssohn
> > > Supervisory Operations Research Analyst
> > > NOAA/NMFS
> > > Environmental Research Division
> > > Southwest Fisheries Science Center
> > > ***Note new street address***
> > > 110 McAllister Way
> > > Santa Cruz, CA 95060
> > > Phone: (831)-420-3666
> > > Fax: (831) 420-3980
> > > e-mail: Roy.Mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx www: http://www.pfeg.noaa.gov/
> > >
> > > "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill."
> > > "From those who have been given much, much will be expected"
> > > "the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward
> justice" -MLK Jr.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > NOTE: All exchanges posted to Unidata maintained email lists are
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> >
> >
> > --
> > Gerry Creager
> > NSSL/CIMMS
> > 405.325.6371
> > ++++++++++++++++++++++
> > “Big whorls have little whorls,
> > That feed on their velocity;
> > And little whorls have lesser whorls,
> > And so on to viscosity.”
> > Lewis Fry Richardson (1881-1953)
>
> **********************
> "The contents of this message do not reflect any position of the U.S.
> Government or NOAA."
> **********************
> Roy Mendelssohn
> Supervisory Operations Research Analyst
> NOAA/NMFS
> Environmental Research Division
> Southwest Fisheries Science Center
> ***Note new street address***
> 110 McAllister Way
> Santa Cruz, CA 95060
> Phone: (831)-420-3666
> Fax: (831) 420-3980
> e-mail: Roy.Mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx www: http://www.pfeg.noaa.gov/
>
> "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill."
> "From those who have been given much, much will be expected"
> "the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice"
> -MLK Jr.
>
> _______________________________________________
> NOTE: All exchanges posted to Unidata maintained email lists are
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