Bob, Nathan,
Actually, the "Conventions" attribute can handle multiple conventions in the
netCDF specification. See:
http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf/conventions.html
It says:
It is possible for a netCDF file to adhere to more than one set of conventions,
even when there is no inheritance relationship among the conventions. In this
case, the value of the `Conventions' attribute may be a single text string
containing a list of the convention names separated by blank space
(recommended) or commas (if a convention name contains blanks), for example
:Conventions = "XXX YYY" ;
While the CF conventions do say to use "CF-1.4" the text of the URL you sent
doesn't say you CAN'T include other conventions. I think it would not be in the
spirit of CF to tell someone not to include other conventions if they are
appropriate.
Ken
On Jan 21, 2010, at 3:14 PM, Nathan Potter wrote:
>
>
> Bob,
>
> Thanks for the clarification.
>
>
> Nathan
>
>
>
> On Jan 21, 2010, at 12:05 PM, Bob Simons wrote:
>
>> On 1/21/2010 11:17 AM, Nathan Potter wrote:
>>>
>>> Bob,
>>>
>>> Roy indicated (via an offline conversation) that the "Conventions"
>>> metadata attribute is baked into the existing netCDF files at the ERD
>>> site, and that it is unlikely that a reprocessing of the data would be
>>> undertaken to correct the existing files. If that's the case then
>>> wouldn't this mean that it would be necessary to support both
>>> interpretations of the "Conventions" attribute? Or was I
>>> misunderstanding the extent of the issue w.r.t. changing the existing
>>> ERD holdings?
>>
>> It is true that "Conventions" (and not "Metadata_Conventions") is used in a
>> large number of files at ERD and that it is unlikely (but possible) that
>> those existing files will be changed. But we are working to change our
>> program that generates new .nc files so that new files will have both
>> Conventions: CF-1.4
>> Metadata_Conventions: COARDS, CF-1.4, Unidata Dataset Discovery v1.0
>>
>> Since we have configured THREDDS to get metadata from the penultimate file,
>> the new metadata will appear in almost all of our THREDDS datasets sooner
>> (many of our datasets are near-real-time) or later. We may have to change a
>> few datasets by hand. But the plan is to convert to using both
>> "Conventions" and "Metadata_Conventions" for the reasons I stated earlier
>> this morning.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nathan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 21, 2010, at 10:57 AM, Bob Simons wrote:
>>>
>>>> Please leave "Metadata_Conventions" as is.
>>>>
>>>> The problem is that the widely used CF convention specifies that the
>>>> value of "Conventions" should be just "CF-1.4" and that the value is
>>>> sometimes interpreted as a directory name. So it can't be a list of
>>>> conventions. See
>>>> http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-conventions/1.4/cf-conventions.html#identification-of-conventions
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So it is useful to have a separate "Metadata_Conventions" attribute
>>>> which can be a comma-separated list of convention names, e.g.,
>>>> "COARDS, CF-1.4, Unidata Dataset Discovery v1.0". See
>>>> http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf-java/formats/DataDiscoveryAttConvention.html
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>> The misuse of "Conventions" at the ERD site was my mistake. I am
>>>> working to change it to (for most datasets)
>>>> Conventions : CF-1.4
>>>> Metadata_Conventions: COARDS, CF-1.4, Unidata Dataset Discovery v1.0
>>>>
>>>> That's my $0.02.
>>>>
>>>> On 1/21/2010 10:36 AM, Nathan Potter wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Greetings,
>>>>>
>>>>> Any idea how many people are using the UNIDATA's NetCDF Attribute
>>>>> Convention for Dataset Discovery??
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If Roy's site is the primary (only?) example of it in actual use, and we
>>>>> accept Benno's point that the name attribute *Metadata_Conventions* is
>>>>> redundant, should we not consider amending the draft to change the
>>>>> attribute name from *Metadata_Conventions* to *Conventions*?
>>>>>
>>>>> (Assuming that it hasn't been push passed the draft spec: Dataset
>>>>> Discovery NetCDF Attribute Convention
>>>>> <http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf-java/formats/DataDiscoveryAttConvention.html>)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If we don't change it might we amend the draft to explicitly make the
>>>>> attributes *Metadata_Conventions* and *Conventions* synonymous?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Nathan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 14, 2010, at 9:44 AM, Roy Mendelssohn wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> There are metadata in our files that follows all of those conventions.
>>>>>> In trying to relay that act, we felt this was the best way to relay
>>>>>> that fact. So you will find the metadata required for CF, the
>>>>>> Coastwatch conventions, and the Unidata Data Discovery Conventions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Roy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 14, 2010, at 9:40 AM, Benno Blumenthal wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OK, again trying desperately to understand your cryptic e-mails,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://thredds1.pfeg.noaa.gov/thredds/dodsC/satellite/SW/chla/1day.das
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> has many of those attributes. You did, however, say
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> String Conventions "COARDS, CF-1.0, Unidata Dataset Discovery v1.0,
>>>>>>> CWHDF";
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> whereas the document suggested looking for
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> String Metadata_Conventions = "Unidata Dataset Discovery v1.0";
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What you are doing, of course, makes sense. Did the original document
>>>>>>> get corrected over time?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Benno
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:31 PM, Roy Mendelssohn
>>>>>>> <Roy.Mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx <mailto:Roy.Mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No we use it extensively. Look at any of he satellite data at our
>>>>>>>> TDS (http://oceanwatch.pfeg.noaa.gov/thredds/catalog.html). It is
>>>>>>>> just since this is not automatically produced by the TDS that we
>>>>>>>> have a program of our own that generates our catalogs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Roy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 14, 2010, at 9:18 AM, Benno Blumenthal wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So, to be really concrete, despite this convention of using netcdf
>>>>>>>>> attributes to insert metadata which you just pointed us to, you
>>>>>>>>> don't use it at all, you just scan your netcdf files yourself and
>>>>>>>>> generate the TDS XML directly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Benno
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Roy Mendelssohn
>>>>>>>>> <Roy.Mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx <mailto:Roy.Mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> We did this "by hand" (well actually we have a program that does
>>>>>>>>> it) in generating our catalogs not certain ow others do it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Roy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jan 14, 2010, at 8:56 AM, Nathan Potter wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Roy,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Briefly scanning that page it looks like this gist of it is that
>>>>>>>>>> one could use NcML to add/complete a "Unidata Dataset Discovery
>>>>>>>>>> v1.0" set of metadata to a data set. THis could then be harvested
>>>>>>>>>> by the TDS, or by other software that understood the "Unidata
>>>>>>>>>> Dataset Discovery v1.0" convention.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Is that the general idea?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> N
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 14, 2010, at 8:41 AM, Roy Mendelssohn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Nathan:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Look at:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf-java/formats/DataDiscoveryAttConvention.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -Roy
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 14, 2010, at 8:33 AM, Nathan Potter wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Greetings,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have some questions about the origin of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> thredds:geospaptialCoverage element that is commonly found in
>>>>>>>>>>>> THREDDS catalogs. It is my understanding that:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - The TDS can generate this metadata element by interrogating
>>>>>>>>>>>> certain types of source data files.
>>>>>>>>>>>> - People that write their own THREDDS catalog files to be served
>>>>>>>>>>>> by the TDS can add the thredds:geospaptialCoverage metadata
>>>>>>>>>>>> directly to their catalogs (using whatever process they wish).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Is the thredds:geospaptialCoverage also something that can be
>>>>>>>>>>>> added through normal channels in NcML augmented data sets?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> = = =
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nathan Potter ndp at opendap.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> OPeNDAP, Inc. +1.541.231.3317
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> thredds mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> thredds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:thredds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>> For list information or to unsubscribe, visit:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/mailing_lists/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> **********************
>>>>>>>>>>> "The contents of this message do not reflect any position of the
>>>>>>>>>>> U.S. Government or NOAA."
>>>>>>>>>>> **********************
>>>>>>>>>>> Roy Mendelssohn
>>>>>>>>>>> Supervisory Operations Research Analyst
>>>>>>>>>>> NOAA/NMFS
>>>>>>>>>>> Environmental Research Division
>>>>>>>>>>> Southwest Fisheries Science Center
>>>>>>>>>>> 1352 Lighthouse Avenue
>>>>>>>>>>> Pacific Grove, CA 93950-2097
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail: Roy.Mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:Roy.Mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx> (Note new e-mail address)
>>>>>>>>>>> voice: (831)-648-9029
>>>>>>>>>>> fax: (831)-648-8440
>>>>>>>>>>> www: http://www.pfeg.noaa.gov/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill."
>>>>>>>>>>> "From those who have been given much, much will be expected"
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> = = =
>>>>>>>>>> Nathan Potter ndp at opendap.org
>>>>>>>>>> OPeNDAP, Inc. +1.541.231.3317
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> **********************
>>>>>>>>> "The contents of this message do not reflect any position of the
>>>>>>>>> U.S. Government or NOAA."
>>>>>>>>> **********************
>>>>>>>>> Roy Mendelssohn
>>>>>>>>> Supervisory Operations Research Analyst
>>>>>>>>> NOAA/NMFS
>>>>>>>>> Environmental Research Division
>>>>>>>>> Southwest Fisheries Science Center
>>>>>>>>> 1352 Lighthouse Avenue
>>>>>>>>> Pacific Grove, CA 93950-2097
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> e-mail: Roy.Mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx <mailto:Roy.Mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>> (Note new e-mail address)
>>>>>>>>> voice: (831)-648-9029
>>>>>>>>> fax: (831)-648-8440
>>>>>>>>> www: http://www.pfeg.noaa.gov/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill."
>>>>>>>>> "From those who have been given much, much will be expected"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Dr. M. Benno Blumenthal benno@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:benno@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>> International Research Institute for climate and society
>>>>>>>>> The Earth Institute at Columbia University
>>>>>>>>> Lamont Campus, Palisades NY 10964-8000 (845) 680-4450
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> **********************
>>>>>>>> "The contents of this message do not reflect any position of the
>>>>>>>> U.S. Government or NOAA."
>>>>>>>> **********************
>>>>>>>> Roy Mendelssohn
>>>>>>>> Supervisory Operations Research Analyst
>>>>>>>> NOAA/NMFS
>>>>>>>> Environmental Research Division
>>>>>>>> Southwest Fisheries Science Center
>>>>>>>> 1352 Lighthouse Avenue
>>>>>>>> Pacific Grove, CA 93950-2097
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> e-mail: Roy.Mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx <mailto:Roy.Mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>> (Note new e-mail address)
>>>>>>>> voice: (831)-648-9029
>>>>>>>> fax: (831)-648-8440
>>>>>>>> www: http://www.pfeg.noaa.gov/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill."
>>>>>>>> "From those who have been given much, much will be expected"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Dr. M. Benno Blumenthal benno@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> <mailto:benno@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> International Research Institute for climate and society
>>>>>>> The Earth Institute at Columbia University
>>>>>>> Lamont Campus, Palisades NY 10964-8000 (845) 680-4450
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **********************
>>>>>> "The contents of this message do not reflect any position of the U.S.
>>>>>> Government or NOAA."
>>>>>> **********************
>>>>>> Roy Mendelssohn
>>>>>> Supervisory Operations Research Analyst
>>>>>> NOAA/NMFS
>>>>>> Environmental Research Division
>>>>>> Southwest Fisheries Science Center
>>>>>> 1352 Lighthouse Avenue
>>>>>> Pacific Grove, CA 93950-2097
>>>>>>
>>>>>> e-mail: Roy.Mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx <mailto:Roy.Mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> (Note new e-mail address)
>>>>>> voice: (831)-648-9029
>>>>>> fax: (831)-648-8440
>>>>>> www: http://www.pfeg.noaa.gov/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill."
>>>>>> "From those who have been given much, much will be expected"
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> = = =
>>>>> Nathan Potter ndp at opendap.org
>>>>> OPeNDAP, Inc. +1.541.231.3317
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> thredds mailing list
>>>>> thredds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> For list information or to unsubscribe, visit:
>>>>> http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/mailing_lists/
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>> Bob Simons
>>>> IT Specialist
>>>> Environmental Research Division
>>>> NOAA Southwest Fisheries Science Center
>>>> 1352 Lighthouse Ave
>>>> Pacific Grove, CA 93950-2079
>>>> Phone: (831)658-3205
>>>> Fax: (831)648-8440
>>>> Email: bob.simons@xxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>> The contents of this message are mine personally and
>>>> do not necessarily reflect any position of the
>>>> Government or the National Oceanic and Atmospheric
>>>> Administration.
>>>> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> thredds mailing list
>>>> thredds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> For list information or to unsubscribe, visit:
>>>> http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/mailing_lists/
>>>
>>> = = =
>>> Nathan Potter ndp at opendap.org
>>> OPeNDAP, Inc. +1.541.231.3317
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Bob Simons
>> IT Specialist
>> Environmental Research Division
>> NOAA Southwest Fisheries Science Center
>> 1352 Lighthouse Ave
>> Pacific Grove, CA 93950-2079
>> Phone: (831)658-3205
>> Fax: (831)648-8440
>> Email: bob.simons@xxxxxxxx
>>
>> The contents of this message are mine personally and
>> do not necessarily reflect any position of the
>> Government or the National Oceanic and Atmospheric
>> Administration.
>> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> thredds mailing list
>> thredds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> For list information or to unsubscribe, visit:
>> http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/mailing_lists/
>
> = = =
> Nathan Potter ndp at opendap.org
> OPeNDAP, Inc. +1.541.231.3317
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> thredds mailing list
> thredds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> For list information or to unsubscribe, visit:
> http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/mailing_lists/
[NOTE: The opinions expressed in this email are those of the author alone and
do not necessarily reflect official NOAA, Department of Commerce, or US
government policy.]
Kenneth S. Casey, Ph.D.
Technical Director
NOAA National Oceanographic Data Center
1315 East-West Highway
Silver Spring MD 20910
301-713-3272 ext 133
http://www.nodc.noaa.gov/
